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August 12, 2006

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Marti

So sorry for not visiting my blog buddies lately - been so darned busy promoting the book.

I love that last paragraph - so true!

Hope you have a terrific day!

Dan tdaxp

So the free market is evil because, regardless of final result, it relies on selfishness to function?

Stu

No the free market is not evil because it is a thing. Neither is self-interest which is markedly different than selfishness. Seeking success is noble until it sacrifices your soul.

Sean Meade

in the Judeo-Christian tradition, there is no dualistic/light-dark/yin-yang relationship. good kicks evil. God created Satan. Satan is a much lower being than God, striving for what some have called not a force in itself (evil), but only an absence (of good). in Martin Luther's words: 'Satan is God's devil.'

let me push my buddy, Dan, a little bit. the free market is based on selfishness, yes, which we can count on far more than altruism. trusting in the sin of people is wise. hoping for better is optimism. love is the higher way.

Star Wars and kids tangent: when i started watching Star Wars with the twins (mostly Wil, my son), almost two years ago, we tried to explain why Anakin went to the Dark Side and ended up at the explanation 'because he listened to his feelings too much'. this correlated with another teaching my kids had taken in about 'letting go of anger'. a correlation with that was 'or you become a bad guy'. please cut me some slack on these simplifications. we were working with 5 yos within a very particular context.

Stu

Sean - so it sounds like we agree...

I equate selfishness in an extreme manner of egotism. Free markets function based on greed but most of us draw the line at some form of morality - in the West often based upon biblical (Judeo-Christian) precepts. We might want a better deal than the next guy but we aren't prepared to run him down with our car to get it. Our natural state is somewhere between good and evil. The 'saint' gives where not required, the 'sinner' takes where not lawful.

Good advice about Star Wars - we just received Episode II in the mail. Even though my kids (5 & 8) haven't seen it yet they seem to already know the story. Earlier episodes have also evoked a lot of serious discussion along with some tears (the whole 'Luke I am your father' notion). It is a great way to show that people aren't necessarily good or bad but shift between the extremes.

Dan tdaxp

My knowledge of the Old Testament is shakier, but there is nothing in the New Tesatement against accmulation. 1 Corithians 9:24, for example

"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize."

The three elements of Christianity are Love, Faith, and Hope -- selflessness do not make the cut.

Rather, Christianity urges its followers to align their will with God's, so that one's selfish interests coincide with God's plans.

The Catholic Church outlined her views on capitalism in Rerum Novarum.

Much of what is called "selfishnes" is actually an empty version of altruism -- the belief that if one acquires something with /social value/, one is somehow a better person for it. Misers are thus keenly aware of the selfish will, and are more socitist than egoist. Egotism is a funhouse-mirror version of selfishness, where a concern for one's self is replaced by a concern by what others can measure of one's self.

Stu

Dan - I have to question your comment about selflessness...

I consider love to be the embodiment of selflessness - and from what I understand love trumps even faith and hope.

I would love to hear your reader's digest version of Rerum Novarum - since aside from the length I doubt I really appreciate the context.

As far as my perspective on over focusing on success - it seems that Jesus is clear in Mark 8:36 - "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gains the whole world, and lose his own soul?" I don't see this an indictment of profit but of a loss of balance.

Along a similar note Matthew 6:23 "But if your eye is evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness." (an "evil eye" being an obvious Jewish reference to miserliness in Proverbs 28:22 - "He that hastens to be rich has an evil eye, and does not consider that poverty shall come upon him.")

A [Christian] friend sent me an e-mail after reading this blog with these references as well:

Matthew 19:23 Jesus said to his disciples, "Most certainly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty.

Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God."

1 Cor 13:1-8 If I spoke human and angel languages but had no love, I would only be making noise... If I had the gift of prophecy and knew all secrets, if I had knowledge about everything and even if I had the gift of faith so that I could make mountains move, I would still be worth nothing at all having no love. And if I gave everything I have to poor people and my body to be burned but didn't love others, it would be of no value whatever. Love is very patient, full of mercy and free of jealousy, envy, conceit and pride, never _selfish_ or rude. It is not irritable or touchy, never glad about injustice but shares rejoicing in truth. Love is always loyal, believing, full of hope and capable of enduring everything. Love never disappears even though prophecies will come to an end and tongues will stop speaking...

I Cor 10:24 Don't seek things for yourself only, but each of you seek things for the benefit of others.

dan tdaxp

RN is simultaneously an attack on socialism and capitalism. Much of JP2's economic philosophy is exactly in line with it. God created property and wealth, and it is right for people to have both, but neither are ends in themselves,

The Church agrees with socialists, Marxists, and capitalisms when they treat Man as an end. It disagrees with them when they treat Man as a means.

Sadly, in our fallen state we are faced with limits. Thus our treatment of fellow humans as means is as much a symptom of our original sin as it is a new one.

Stu

Thanks for the explanation, Dan, it makes a lot of sense.

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